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Mk II Heater Fan

Rick Mutzke
Ottawa Jaguar Club *

forum user since 2010-11-22

 

My heater fan is making horrible noises (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18543910/Heater%20Fan.AVI for a short demo). Is it simply a question of replacing or rebuilding the heater fan motor?

1961 Mark II 3.4 MOD owner

Mk II Heater Fan

George Camp
Jaguar Society of South Carolina *

forum user since 2002-11-24

 

Remove it--lube it--put it back together and enjoy for another 50 years! Why are you running the heater now? !!!!!!!!!!

JCRC SE
JCNA VP

Mk II Heater Fan

Rick Mutzke
Ottawa Jaguar Club *

forum user since 2010-11-22

 

:-) I've just been checking what does and doesn't work while either waiting for parts or waiting for answers to questions. Pretty sure that, considering the state of the car, the outside vent won't be of much use for a year ot two, either :-/

1961 Mark II 3.4 MOD owner

Mk II Heater Fan

Dave Goodson
Jaguar Drivers and Restorers Club of NWA *

forum user since 2008-04-29

 

You mean it's jammed?
Takes a bit of work and soaking of the pivots, drop the centre instrument section (without breaking the switch plate) and look with a strong light....then soak the visible pivot areas down, using a wand in the nozzle if possible, starting high, letting it run down.
Heater, defroster, ventilating air, none work with the scuttle vent closed.


Mk II Heater Fan

Rick Mutzke
Ottawa Jaguar Club *

forum user since 2010-11-22

 

Yep, it's jammed or VERY stiff. I had already asked about it under the thread titled "Re: LF: Tips on MK2 Disassembly", but I hadn't tried soaking it. Thanks for the info.

1961 Mark II 3.4 MOD owner

Mk II Heater Fan

Michael Eck
Jaguar Auto Group *

forum user since 2004-05-12

 

Actually, closing the scuttle vent also opens an inlet from the interior, so interior air gets recirculated with the scuttle vent closed.

www.jaguarclock.com
'51 XK120 OTS
'62 3.8 MK2 MOD
'72 SIII E-Type 2+2

Mk II Heater Fan

Dave Goodson
Jaguar Drivers and Restorers Club of NWA *

forum user since 2008-04-29

 

Really? I've had mine all apart, down to the inlet and outlet rails. A good test is to turn the blower on "HIGH" with the vent open, listen, then close the vent and see how it loads the motor.
I get zero air flow with scuttle vent closed...no recirc on mine.
Maybe they left it off mine as a cost-cutting for 2.4L cars?

My vent leads directly to the heater box, back out to the plenum. I suppose, in theory, with the vent closed you could draw air in from the drain hose above the exhaust pipe?


Mk II Heater Fan

Rick Mutzke
Ottawa Jaguar Club *

forum user since 2010-11-22

 

Yep, it's jammed or VERY stiff. I had already asked about it under the thread titled "Re: LF: Tips on MK2 Disassembly", but I hadn't tried soaking it. Thanks for the info.

1961 Mark II 3.4 MOD owner

Mk II Heater Fan

Rick Mutzke
Ottawa Jaguar Club *

forum user since 2010-11-22

 

OK, tried getting just the heater fan out, as it looked like just 3 small nuts to be removed, but they seem to be bolted from inside the heater box. I started taking off the whole heater box, but there are a LOT of nuts to remove. Stupid question: Do I need to disconnect the hoses first (and some cables, too, it would seem), or can I just go ahead and remove the nuts attaching the heater box to the firewall? (Or is there another way to get the fan motor out?)

1961 Mark II 3.4 MOD owner

Mk II Heater Fan

Michael Eck
Jaguar Auto Group *

forum user since 2004-05-12

 

Dave, read page O.3 in the Service Manual or page 18 in the owner's manual. IIRC, the mechanism is visible when you drop down the center instrument panel.

Rick, my heater motor isn't as bad as yours but still sounds like it is tearing itself apart. I'm sure it could be easily improved by cleaning and lubing the bearings. The reason I haven't fixed it is because the entire heater assembly would need to be removed from the car to get the motor out, since you need to remove the fan first. See page O.4 in the Service Manual for the bad news.



www.jaguarclock.com
'51 XK120 OTS
'62 3.8 MK2 MOD
'72 SIII E-Type 2+2

Mk II Heater Fan

Rick Mutzke
Ottawa Jaguar Club *

forum user since 2010-11-22

 

OK, tried getting just the heater fan out, as it looked like just 3 small nuts to be removed, but they seem to be bolted from inside the heater box. I started taking off the whole heater box, but there are a LOT of nuts to remove. Stupid question: Do I need to disconnect the hoses first (and some cables, too, it would seem), or can I just go ahead and remove the nuts attaching the heater box to the firewall? (Or is there another way to get the fan motor out?)

1961 Mark II 3.4 MOD owner

Mk II Heater Fan

Rick Mutzke
Ottawa Jaguar Club *

forum user since 2010-11-22

 

Service manual, eh? Pardon my laziness, I keep forgetting how much stuff is in there. Thanks for the mental boot to the head :-)

1961 Mark II 3.4 MOD owner

Mk II Heater Fan

Rick Mutzke
Ottawa Jaguar Club *

forum user since 2010-11-22

 

Oops, checked the manual - I see I will have to empty the coolant. Looks like that'll have to wait for when I don't need the engine running for a while :-/

1961 Mark II 3.4 MOD owner

Mk II Heater Fan

Dave Goodson
Jaguar Drivers and Restorers Club of NWA *

forum user since 2008-04-29

 

No.....just do it cool.....pull the hoses stick them up in the air. A drip pan will catch what you drip. It's almost the high point of the system.
A piece of copper pipe, even old conduit will connect the lines together so you can run it if needs be.
I've had my heater box out several times (last time for motor lube), and never did a full drain.
You can drain a bit if you're worried.
Relieve the pressure (pull the cap) first on cold engine, just to make sure there isn't any pressure.
No matter what you do, if like mine, once you pull the hoses you are going to get some coolant out of the core when you start pulling the box.


Mk II Heater Fan

Rick Mutzke
Ottawa Jaguar Club *

forum user since 2010-11-22

 

Sounds great, Dave, thanks. Just curious: What did you use to lubricate the motor? I'm still uncertain as to how to translate the old manual's fluid types with their modern equivalents.

1961 Mark II 3.4 MOD owner

Mk II Heater Fan

Dave Goodson
Jaguar Drivers and Restorers Club of NWA *

forum user since 2008-04-29

 

Machine oil. NEVER use 3-in-one.
Soak the oillite bearings and any wicks, clean the shafts (light steel wool works if nothing else).
I have light oil from my model railroad hobby.

On oillite bearings.....I've worked on cars and trucks and some aircraft for,,,well, since 1965 anyway.
When I was in South America, the guys in the hangar were doing a 100-hour or more on a Helio Courier. They were doing the magnetos.

Knocked the oillite bearings out, put them on a flat steel plate on the edge of the bench, heated them cherry red with a torch, and knocked them off the edge into a can of oil sitting on the floor below.
I asked, what was that for?
Heat opened the "pores" in the bearings, drop them in oil, sucked the oil into the pores and they'd stay lubricated.

Not too much chance of doing that with a Smith's motor, but it was an interesting view into lubricating them.
The lighter the oil, the better it seems to penetrate.
Dave


Mk II Heater Fan

Rick Mutzke
Ottawa Jaguar Club *

forum user since 2010-11-22

 

Got it out without too much trouble. Snapped off one of the small screws, though, the one for the rear-most wire (the water tap control wire, I think) - hope I can manage without having to adjust that for now. Still need to clean things up and lubricate the motor.

1961 Mark II 3.4 MOD owner

Mk II Heater Fan

Rick Mutzke
Ottawa Jaguar Club *

forum user since 2010-11-22

 

Sorry to drag this out, but now that I've got the heater box out, I don't see how to remove the motor/fan. I have the cylindrical cover off the fan motor, but still don't have access to the outside screws from the inside. I'll keep poking around, but my next question, though, involves a source for all the gaskets for the heater box. XKs and SNG don't seem to carry them anymore. Any other suggestions?

1961 Mark II 3.4 MOD owner

Mk II Heater Fan

Dave Goodson
Jaguar Drivers and Restorers Club of NWA *

forum user since 2008-04-29

 

You have to remove the squirrel cage. What cylindrical cover over the fan motor are referring to?
Nuts to hold motor to base, under squirrel cage, if I recall last time I did this.


Mk II Heater Fan

Rick Mutzke
Ottawa Jaguar Club *

forum user since 2010-11-22

 

On the opposite side of the squirrel cage sits the motor. The motor is surrounded (on mine, anyways) by a black metal cover. I can tell that the nuts to hold the motor to the base are under the squirrel cage, but I'm not sure how to remove the squirrel cage. It appears to be held with a single nut, but I'm not sure how to loosen the bolt, as it turns the motor. The only way to stop the motor from turning, it would seem, is to jam a screwdriver into its core. Is there another way? I'm a bit concerned about damaging that core.

1961 Mark II 3.4 MOD owner

Re.: Mk II Heater Fan

Dave Goodson
Jaguar Drivers and Restorers Club of NWA *

forum user since 2008-04-29

 

Edited on 2012-08-27 19:14:26

The black cover is the housing. Once the motor is off the base, you separate the housing (split between the bearing ends) and carefully pull it apart to protect the brushes, pull the armature, lube, clean, and re-assemble. To get the cage off, I didn't have any real issue with mine.
Let me go look.

Are you sure there isn't an allen setscrew in the side of the big hex?


Re.: Mk II Heater Fan

Dave Goodson
Jaguar Drivers and Restorers Club of NWA *

forum user since 2008-04-29

 

I'm trying to remember how mine came apart. I've worked on so many different styles over the decades, it all runs together sometimes.
If that hex is a lock nut, which my several year old memory tells me it might be, I think I used an air impact gun, utilizing the inertia of the cage and armature to zap, let it stop, zap, let it stop. Don't just hold the trigger.
IF there is no setscrew, and you can look through the vanes to see, then use the air hammer!

I did mine, oh, over 3 years ago, I think.
Dave


Re.: Mk II Heater Fan

Rick Mutzke
Ottawa Jaguar Club *

forum user since 2010-11-22

 

Thanks for the info, Dave. I'll take a closer look. May I ask if and how your replaced the multiple gaskets used on the heater box?

1961 Mark II 3.4 MOD owner

Re.: Mk II Heater Fan

Dave Goodson
Jaguar Drivers and Restorers Club of NWA *

forum user since 2008-04-29

 

Yeah....I had a roll of canopy to bed seal strips for a pickup.
Peel and stick. Can't see it anyway, worked for me.


Re.: Mk II Heater Fan

Michael Eck
Jaguar Auto Group *

forum user since 2004-05-12

 

Home Depot peel-and-stick foam weatherstripping.

www.jaguarclock.com
'51 XK120 OTS
'62 3.8 MK2 MOD
'72 SIII E-Type 2+2

Re.: Mk II Heater Fan

Rick Mutzke
Ottawa Jaguar Club *

forum user since 2010-11-22

 

The impact wrench did the trick. But then I had the darndest time getting that locking collar off the center shaft. Anyways, that's done, and I have access to everything now. Hopefully, one last question: There's a rectangular piece of metal (1.5" x 6" - guessing from here at the office) that LOOKS like it swivels open, but it's not moving. It should be able to swivel, correct?

1961 Mark II 3.4 MOD owner

Re.: Mk II Heater Fan

Rick Mutzke
Ottawa Jaguar Club *

forum user since 2010-11-22

 

I haven't gotten the trap door on the bottom of the heater box to swivel open yet - I understand applying heat to it might help.

My question now concerns the squirrel cage. I oiled the motor, and by itself, it sounds like it's running fine now. However, I'm wondering how I'm going to be able to reattach the cage to the motor shaft _securely_. The metal piece at the center of the cage (which clamps around the shaft) doesn't _seem_ to be attached to the cage tightly enough to prevent some minor wobbling. Any suggestions on properly securing the whole thing?

1961 Mark II 3.4 MOD owner

Re.: Mk II Heater Fan

Dave Goodson
Jaguar Drivers and Restorers Club of NWA *

forum user since 2008-04-29

 

You mean the hub in the centre is loose from the plate that holds the blade portion?
That may be the source of your noise!
Too thin to weld. If it's loose, cannot recall if they were peened over or crimped without pulling mine apart....and trying to get it secured and keep it balanced is an issue.
Look at the hub on the motor side, if you can see staking or crimps, see if you can set the non-motor side of the hub on a steel block (to hold the blades clear) and re-stake it with a hammer and drift of appropriate size and shape.
XKS does not list the fan, but SNG does, C15591. Tight and balanced is important, or they's sound like a stamp mill!
Dave



Re.: Mk II Heater Fan

Dave Goodson
Jaguar Drivers and Restorers Club of NWA *

forum user since 2008-04-29

 

You mean the hub in the centre is loose from the plate that holds the blade portion?
That may be the source of your noise!
Too thin to weld. If it's loose, cannot recall if they were peened over or crimped without pulling mine apart....and trying to get it secured and keep it balanced is an issue.
Look at the hub on the motor side, if you can see staking or crimps, see if you can set the non-motor side of the hub on a steel block (to hold the blades clear) and re-stake it with a hammer and drift of appropriate size and shape.
XKS does not list the fan, but SNG does, C15591. Tight and balanced is important, or they's sound like a stamp mill!
Dave




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