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C1 4444 Cast into the bell of the 4 speed.

Matthew Mariani
Delaware Valley Jaguar Club *

forum user since 2012-03-25

 

Inside the bell of my GBN JS Moss trans below the throw-out bearing is:
C1 4444
I am still trying to determine whether it is a 3.4 or 3.8 bell.
Anyone with a method of determining the difference, i have pictures i can forward.

Thanks

Matt




1972 XJ-6 High Compression 4.2L


C1 4444 Cast into the bell of the 4 speed.

Peter Crespin
Nation s Capital Jaguar Owners Club *

forum user since 2010-05-20

 

Why? I'm not an expert on the earlier cars but I thought 3.8 and 3.4 flywheels and starters would be similar? Not sure. I do know neither are the same as the 4.2. You can tell just by the shape of the starter bulge that a 4.2 pre-engaged starter will not bolt up without fouling, regardless of flywheel choice.

I have a bell like that on my E-type running a Series 3 4.2 engine. I use it with a 3.8 flywheel and 3.8 gear reduction starter that I had to relieve very slightly around one part of the flange so it could bolt up flush to that kind of bell. I think if you source a 3.8 flywheel and 3.8 reduction starter you may be OK, but don't quote me.

Which would just leave the issues of running a box too big for the XJ transmission tunnel that will need bodywork, a custom rear mount and propshaft, and probably interior console (and maybe even seat) mods. At the end of which you have a non-synchro long-throw gearbox. Think twice, cut once I guess. My 'think' would be to sell that box ASAP. Unless you do all your own fabrication the money you still need to spend is going to be higher than fitting the correct 4-synchro manual and flywheel etc. which will not need you to hack the body about.

Pete Crespin, Gaithersburg, MD, 66 D-type, 70 FHC

C1 4444 Cast into the bell of the 4 speed.

Matthew Mariani
Delaware Valley Jaguar Club *

forum user since 2012-03-25

 

Peter,
As i mentioned beforehand, no body or interior cutting or modification is invilved, the trans tunnel is enormous in an XJ-6 Automatic.
The only mods are the drive shaft, relocation to the support and gear selector, which are not rocket science.

As for finding the correct box, i agree!!!!!!! i've recently been emaiing dismantlers in Great Britian and they even tell me they have nothing available and that those tranmissions are becoming hard to find.
Here in the States it is a needle in a haystack. I cannot pick one up at my local Pep Boys..
Rather than wait a lifetime, i can use this 4 speed and if the right box comes along all i need is a drive shaft to install it. There is no sheet metal or tunnel pounding required. The Moss is much smaller than the BW around the middle. As i said i confirmed this with Walt at Vintage Jag Works, who build top quality C and D type replicas, and do this conversion to XJs all the time. The right box is not available, not even in your neck of the woods.
Thank you.

1972 XJ-6 High Compression 4.2L


C1 4444 Cast into the bell of the 4 speed.

Peter Crespin
Nation s Capital Jaguar Owners Club *

forum user since 2010-05-20

 

I think I have mentioned before you even bought the box that I have several of the correct ones and will be bringing them to America soon (latest ETA July). Presumably your contact who does this conversion all the time on XJs can answer all your questions and supply all necessary ancillaries?

Pete

Pete Crespin, Gaithersburg, MD, 66 D-type, 70 FHC

C1 4444 Cast into the bell of the 4 speed.

George Camp
Jaguar Society of South Carolina *

forum user since 2002-11-24

 

Matthew I think you will find that the number you cite is in fact C14494 not C14444. The J12 records that part number C14444 was not supplied so it may be a factory use number. The correct bell for that car (that it came from ) is C 14494. It strikes me you do not have a manual for this box and O/D.

JCRC SE
JCNA VP

C1 4444 Cast into the bell of the 4 speed.

Matthew Mariani
Delaware Valley Jaguar Club *

forum user since 2012-03-25

 


The original manual i have covers 2.4 and 3.4L cars, but the hand drawn axonmtrc. exploded views clearly are drawings my transmission and obviously the overdrive unit.
Mine is a later non syncro 1st trans, with later style shifter.
I will take it from here thanks for the help.

1972 XJ-6 High Compression 4.2L


C1 4444 Cast into the bell of the 4 speed.

George Camp
Jaguar Society of South Carolina *

forum user since 2002-11-24

 

Well that is a clear picture. The C 14444 is evidently as said an internal part number for the raw pre use casting. Good luck with your project.

JCRC SE
JCNA VP

C1 4444 Cast into the bell of the 4 speed.

Matthew Mariani
Delaware Valley Jaguar Club *

forum user since 2012-03-25

 

I spoke to an expert today who restores and services E types in Allentown Pa.

Geoff said it is simple to determine a 3.4 from a 3.8L clutch housing.

The 3.4 starter bulge widens out toward the edge of the Bell.

The 3.8 starter bulge is straight to the Bell edge as seen in the pictures i provided.

He also said all 3.4s had manual clutch linkage, while 3.8s were hydaulic.

So this trans came out of a 3.8S like the guy who bought it from the guy said.

1972 XJ-6 High Compression 4.2L

C1 4444 Cast into the bell of the 4 speed.

George Camp
Jaguar Society of South Carolina *

forum user since 2002-11-24

 

Matthew the last Jaguar with a manual clutch linkage was the XK140--that ended in 1957. Good Luck with your project!

JCRC SE
JCNA VP

C1 4444 Cast into the bell of the 4 speed.

Matthew Mariani
Delaware Valley Jaguar Club *

forum user since 2012-03-25

 

Boy I'd love to have the last Jag with manual linkage!
Good luck to you as well.
Thanks for your help.
MJM


1972 XJ-6 High Compression 4.2L

C1 4444 Cast into the bell of the 4 speed.

Peter Crespin
Nation s Capital Jaguar Owners Club *

forum user since 2010-05-20

 

Yes, it's always dangerous to say 'All' or even 'Last' as we got two totally different 3.4s - the original style from XK and Mk models and in the seventies we got a new shrunken version of the 4.2. This used the straight port head and 4.2 style everything else in the 3.4 XJ right up to around the mid 80s in UK and RoW, whereas you only got the 4.2 in the USA. Same for the 2.8 you never got at all



Pete Crespin, Gaithersburg, MD, 66 D-type, 70 FHC

C1 4444 Cast into the bell of the 4 speed.

Phil Wright
Jaguar Club of Pittsburgh *

forum user since 2002-11-30

 

Hi Matt,

Why in the world are you putting a Moss box in an XJ? There are a number of important mods to be done for it to fit properly. It would be easier to put in a full syncrobox out of an XJ donor car. They are available (I bought one NOS from Canada for my MK2) and you won't need another box top for the stick to be at the correct place. You'd even get a pedal box for the clutch. Last week I talked to someone from England and he asked if I wanted a pallet of them - but i'd have to pay the high shipping. I have the MK2 with a 4 sp/od and a 140 DHC with an E-type 4 speed and they're both full syncro. You can't compare the before and after.

Phil.



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