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2003 xjr with new battery won't crank

Adam Leamy
Jaguar Car Club of Victoria *

forum user since 2007-02-23

 


2003 XJR. Dealer installed new battery ten days ago when car would not crank or start. All features, i.e., clock and lights still worked though. Picked car up after weekend and while start seemed a but slow, it started up. Same symptoms in Seattle this weekend; car would not start after sitting overnight, but seems able to hold charge and start for a few hours after a boost.. Am on ferry back to Victoria and am praying there is one more start left so I can get off the ferry when it lands. Any suggestions as to why the battery powers the features, but not the starter?



2003 xjr with new battery won't crank

Jay Burnett
Jaguar Drivers Club Area 51 *

forum user since 2011-03-02

 

Hi Adam
I'm no Jaguar officianado or mechanic. I love my XJR but I'm basically an old muscle car guy. And from that experience I would veture to guess that you have a ground short that is draining your battery. New battery? Won't hold a charge? Something somewhere must be draining your battery.

Jay Burnett
1999 Jaguar XJR
1986 BMW 635csi
2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible JXI
1996 BMW K1100


2003 xjr with new battery won't crank

Steven Petry
Jaguar Association of Greater Indiana *

forum user since 2007-02-03

 

Adam,

I'm a little late to the party, so I couldn't be any help on the ferry, but there are a couple of things that are possibilities. You do say it seems like a no crank and not a dead battery, other things seem to work when it won't start, I hope that's right. The first possibility for that is the starter relay, that is on of the six or seven relays that are in the ECM coolbox at the RH side of the engine compartment near the bonnet latch. Remove the foot and a half square trim cover and remove 4 torx head screws to remove the coolbox cover. Personally, I would replace all those relays due to the age of the car, but one is the starter relay and could easily have burnt contacts. The other possibility that comes to mind is a little harder to diagnose. There is a small coil around the key cylinder in the steering column, it reads the key transponder when you start the car. If the key is correct, it allows the engine to crank and start. If that coil fails it can cause what you describe. Usually though, it happens intermittently, and another try or two will start the car.

Hope that helps!

S Petry
'95 XJR
'97 XK8 Conv.

2003 xjr with new battery won't crank

Adam Leamy
Jaguar Car Club of Victoria *

forum user since 2007-02-23

 

Thank you Steven and Jay for taking the time to write. Yes, I did make it off the ferry, and used that one, possibly last start to get off the ferry, to the house, unload the car from the Seattle trip with it still running, and head back downtown (with Michelle driving the other car) and parked it at the dealer Sunday night.

I don't know if the car started, or if they had to boost it, but here's the description from the bill (2.5 hours labour; $272.38 plus $27.24 shop charge and tax (35.96) for total of $335.58, which I have to consider a bargain given my frustration with the problem, and my awareness of how problematic and elusive electrical gremlins can be:

"Recharge battery and test, good. Recheck charging system, good. Recheck for current draw, found 4.3 amp. draw. Remove relays and fuses one at a time to locate source of draw. Found right front windshield stating [staying on?]. Try new relay, draw still there. Trace fault to water in electrical connector. Clean corrosion from pins and apply dielectric grease to pins."

And a nice wash, too, on a rare snow day in these parts. Looked quite nice.

If there's a moral to the story, maybe it's "Say less, not more. And leave the detecting to those qualified to do so."

Here's why: About a month ago, when it started to get colder here, and I started using the windshield heater (not knowing there might have been a problem there) I noticed the car seemed to be taking just a bit longer to turn over in the mornings, but better during the day as I used it. Then, I noticed that I was having a bit of inconsistency with the door locks. Then, I read here that sometimes inconsistent door lock operation can be a sign that the battery is weakening. My battery was the original one -- some eight years old.

So putting this all together into a nice, tidy Encyclopedia Brown package, I phoned the dealer and made an appointment to come in and have the battery replaced, even though it had not yet died. I got an appointment for the following week.

The afternoon before the appointment, I went to start the car to run my business partner to the airport. While lights, horn, radio, clock, etc., worked, the car would not crank. Personally, I felt that being able to time the demise of an eight-year-old battery to a mere 16 hours before a scheduled appointment to take the car to the dealer to have said battery replaced showed remarkable talent. I started calling myself "The Battery Whisperer."

And because I had asked him to change the battery, the dealer did exactly that. No questions asked.

Possibly if I had just said "car start slow, now start not" I might have earned the diagnostic talents of the dealer when they had the car the first time, i.e., before I headed to Seattle, loaded up the trunk with antique and other purchases on the way down, and had to unload the whole deal twice at the hotel because the thing wouldn't start, then face the wrath of passengers in the ferry line up because I wouldn't shut it off for fear of not getting it started and missing the ferry home, figuring, curiously, that it's better not to be able to get off a ferry than it is not to get on at all.

But there you go. I should probably write less too, i.e., "Car broken. Now fixed."

Again, thank you both for your help; as always it's much appreciated.

Adam





2003 xjr with new battery won't crank

Steven Petry
Jaguar Association of Greater Indiana *

forum user since 2007-02-03

 

Well, thank YOU Adam, for coming back and reporting your resolution. So many times we try to help, but we don't get the courtesy of the resolution so everyone learns something.

In this case you have also provided a teaching moment. Especially in this day and age of electronic everything, you can never provide TOO MANY facts. You as a consumer may have no idea what 'insignificant' little tidbit will be the bit that provides us technical people the AH HA! moment we need to more quickly solve the puzzle that brought you to us. Conversely, if you come to us with a 'diagnosis', and we do exactly what you ask, it's sort of hard to come back and tell us "you didn't fix my car"! But that is exactly what happens. A fellow wanted a 'tune-up', we explained you really don't tune-up a car these days, they basically tune themselves perpetually. We said the only "tune parts" are spark plugs, which usually go 80-100K miles. He said, "put plugs in it". So we did, against our better judgment. Two days later, here he came. "I want my money back, my car isn't fixed!! It still runs like crap when it gets good and hot."

You get the picture. It would have been a different ball game had he told us that the first time. You can never have too much information.

Now I ramble.......

Glad you got yours taken care of, I'd say you got your moneys worth from that battery, eight years.

Cheers,

S Petry
'95 XJR
'97 XK8 Conv.

2003 xjr with new battery won't crank

Jay Burnett
Jaguar Drivers Club Area 51 *

forum user since 2011-03-02

 

Hi Adam,
Yes, I agree with Steven. It's nice to hear how it all worked out! I feel some self-serving need to pat my muscle-car self on the back. I tend to want to much to think of things in simple American muscle car era views/fixes. Which is way simple compared to Jaguars and todays cars.
As I understand, you left the windshield heater on (which I thought would disable when you turned the car off). But it sounds like after all you did have a battery drain. Not really a battery problem. Glad you're up and running! Sorry about the headaches you experienced in the meantime. But bottom line, was it a relay problem or a windshield heater problem? Steven called the relay. Was that it?

Jay Burnett
1999 Jaguar XJR
1986 BMW 635csi
2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible JXI
1996 BMW K1100

2003 xjr with new battery won't crank

Adam Leamy
Jaguar Car Club of Victoria *

forum user since 2007-02-23

 

Dear Jay:

On plane, about to de-ice and go. So brief: check quoted text in my post for full detail. That's what the technician found, switch off but bad connection kept it on.

Adam


2003 xjr with new battery won't crank

Jay Burnett
Jaguar Drivers Club Area 51 *

forum user since 2011-03-02

 

Hmmm. You damn well better deice that plane Adam! Clean connection! Stay on ground!

Jay Burnett
1999 Jaguar XJR
1986 BMW 635csi
2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible JXI
1996 BMW K1100

2003 xjr with new battery won't crank

Jay Burnett
Jaguar Drivers Club Area 51 *

forum user since 2011-03-02

 

Got it Adam. Are you on a small aircraft with bladdrer deicers or an arcraft with heat and chemical deiceres? Have a nice flight! Stay below 3,000 and you won't have to worry too much about deiceing in normal conditions. If you're in the norhwest part of the nation you may run into some compromising conditions. See that your pilot, if it's a charter, stays below freezing altitiudes. I have a little bit of avaition experience. Be safe my friend. And if you're on a charter flight, you are the boss!

Jay Burnett
1999 Jaguar XJR
1986 BMW 635csi
2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible JXI
1996 BMW K1100